39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda; 40 And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth. - Luke 1:39-40Towards the end of our Holy Land tour two days before we returned home, we visited the little hilly town of En Kerem, which was not very far from the city of Jerusalem.It was in this town that tradition (i.e. Catholic and/
Mark 1:1-8 The Proclamation of Jhon the BaptistThe beginning of the good news of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.As it is written in the prophet Isaiah,See, I am sedning my messagerahead of you,you will prepare your way;the voice of one crying out in thewilderness:Prepare the way of the Lord,make his path staright"John the baptizer appeared in the wilderness, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for t
Image via WikipediaI always look forward to Oliver's posts on Mississippi Atheists about visiting various Christian churches in Mississippi. It often seems that he is an anthropologist of sorts entering a very strange environment and emerging to tell us about it. I couldn't do it, but I'm glad he does. For the latest post in his "Nonbeliever in church" series, Oliver accepted an e-mailed invitatio
Well-known Founder of the Congregation of the Brothers of Christian Schools, orthodox and prayerful theologian, you realized the very great value of competent Christian educators. How great your wholesome influence has been! Make you followers continue to be Christlike models for all their students who in turn will edify others. Amen.Visit Catholic Prayers to see collection of inspiring prayers. C
Every now and then we need a little amusement to brighten our day so I thought I would share this funny dog joke that a friend sent me… Enjoy!
A Baptist preacher and his wife decided to get a new dog. Ever mindful of the congregation, they knew the dog must also be a Baptist. They [...]
Lord, have mercy on us. Christ, have mercy on us.Christ, hear us. Christ, graciously hear us.God the Father of Heaven, Have mercy on us.God the Son, Redeemer of the world, Have mercy on us.God the Holy Ghost, Have mercy on us.Holy Trinity, One God, Have mercy on us.Holy Mary, pray for us.Queen of Prophets, pray for us.Queen of Martyrs, pray for us.St. John the Baptist, pray for us.St. John the Bap
There are different religions all over the world. But despite these different beliefs and religion, most people still get along well with others. Being a member of the Baptist Church does not necessarily make you some sort of alien. Most Baptist Church youths are troubled because they often think that other religions will discriminate them. With the various Baptist Church youth activities, their m
Americans United for Separation of Church and State has asked the U.S. Department of Defense to investigate Fort Leonard Wood in Missouri for promoting attendance at a Baptist church. This is certainly not the first time we've heard about Christian proselytizing in the military (and it won't be the last), but it is of the few cases I can recall where soldiers were directed toward a particular deno
Allen County Public Library CONTENTdm CollectionI just can't seem to get away from history - and you know - that's fine with me.I'm returning to Fort Wayne this weekend - but just for a handful of hours - specifically - to attend a service at First Baptist Church. More on the "whys" behind that - tomorrow.Being the Catholic chick that I am (or should I say - sometimes claim to be), I had never hea
Every 24th of June, areas in the Philippines that have St. John the Baptist as patron saint celebrate his feast day with the traditional “basaan” or “buhusan” (dousing of water). Anyone who goes to the town of San Juan, Metro Manila on the morning of June 24 cannot stay dry. Neither will anyone who visits small towns near a stream, a river, or the sea before noon. The experience is suppo
The following headline's running on the website of Minot, North Dakota's CBS affiliate, KXMC: ::sigh:: Must our legal love be blamed for everything? Gay couples to tie knot...Iowa deaths climb... [AP via KXMC] (H/t: Scott Hutcheson)
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Modern Baptist work began in Poland in [[1844]]. The first church was formed among German-speaking Poles in the village of [[Elblag]] by [[Gottfried Friederich Alf|Gottfried Alf]] (1831-1898), a school teacher, and missionary Wilhelm Wiest. Wiest baptized Alf and eight othe
I'm an evangelical Christian who also happens to be a Southern Baptist. Although I in no way speak for my denomination, apparently I'm not alone when it comes to my reluctant embrace of Sen. John McCain. Quotes from this week's gathering of the Southern Baptist Convention show that I'm very much in like-company.Dan Yoder, the pastor of a Southern Baptist Church in Springfield, Tennessee, said, "
The Westboro Baptist Church AKA "God Hates Fags" hate group is planning a demonstration to oppose same-sex marriage on June 17 when same-sex couples will begin being issued marriage licenses.Tuesday, June 17, at 7:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. Contra Costa County Clerk’s office 555 Escobar St., Martinez, CA.Anyone interested in a counter-demonstration? Show up and speak your mind.
In my last post I shared how Mormons and Evangelicals can get along. I read on another blog somewhere about a Baptist preacher a few months ago and thought this was interesting to share. This Baptist Preacher seems to have found a way to still believe in the Evangelical Jesus and the Book of Mormon Jesus. The following [...]
FROM CBB NEWS SOURCE
ARKADELPHIA – The Ouachita Baptist baseball team will begin its quest for an...
Visit The College Baseball Blog for the Full Story
I believe most people have heard about the earthquake in Sichuan Province, China. The death toll is climbing higher and higher like an elevator in the Empire State Building. But you may not have heard that a group called the Westboro Baptist Church actually thanks God for this earthquake. They condemn China on "ancestor worship crap and other heathen religions", and they believe that God sent the
No matter what side of the war are you on I think most everyone would feel what this man and his church did was wrong.I for one hope this lawsuit will stop them.When I listened to this man he sounds like an abuser himself.
Q. You know who's WAY too gay-friendly for their own good? A. The Southern Baptist Convention, natch. Or so says Westboro Baptist in their latest press release:
I was reading in John 3 yesterday... and part of John the Baptist's words just stood out to me... and I thought I'd share them this morning with you. Check it out...John 3:31-35He [Jesus] has come from above and is greater than anyone else. I am of the earth, and my understanding is limited to the things of earth, but He has come from heaven. He tells what He has seen and heard, but how few believe what He tells them! Those who believe Him discover that God is true. For He is sent by God. He speaks God's words, for God's Spirit is upon Him without measure or limit. The Father loves His son, and He has given Him authority over everything.These words were spoken by John to his disciples, basically letting them know that it was all about Jesus.I think the most interesting portion of the passa
At a town hall forum in Iowa today, Sen. John McCain was asked about a story from Cliff Schecter's controversial recent book, The Real McCain, which alleges that during a 1992 campaign stop, McCain angrily called his wife a "trollop" and a "c**t" in front of aides and reporters. read more | digg story
Now here is a story to make you proud of the younger generation….Earlier this month, in Menomonie, Wisconsin, about a 1,000 students from the University of Wisconsin-Stout showed up to tell the crazies from the Kansas based“religious organization” the Westboro Baptist Church; "Not here you won’t" and ran them off when the WBC arrived on the UW-Stout campus to spread their message of hate…...Well-known to those of us in the LGBT community for picketing gay pride events and funerals, the group achieved national notoriety for picketing funeral processions for soldiers and Marines killed in action during the Iraq War.The WBC whacko’s run numerous websites such as GodHatesFags.com, GodHatesAmerica.com and others expressing condemnation of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender peo
FROM CBB NEWS SOURCES
DALLAS, Texas - The TCU Horned Frogs scored six unanswered runs to erase an...
Visit The College Baseball Blog for the Full Story
FROM PRESS RELEASE
ARKADELPHIA – The 24th-ranked Ouachita Baptist baseball team rallied to win the...
Visit The College Baseball Blog for the Full Story
Here is a News Service, that I feel in the last days is a God-Send…. :
FRIDAY CHURCH NEWS NOTES
April 18, 2008, Volume 9, Issue 16
The Friday Church News Notes is designed for use in churches and is
published by Way of Life Literature’s Fundamental Baptist Information
Service. For instructions on how to unsubscribe to [...]
A Maryland judge has ordered liens (a legal hold on property making it collateral against money owed to a person or entity) on the Westboro Baptist Church building and the Phelps-Chartered Law office.This is happening as a result of Westboro losing a lawsuit filed by Albert Snyder, the father of Marine Matthew A. Snyder whose funeral was picketed by the Westboro church members. A jury awarded Snyder compensatory damage of $2.9 million and punitive damage of $8 million. But the judge on Feb. 4 reduced the punitive damage to $2.1 million, for a total judgment of $5 million.Snyder's attorney claims this ruling will force the church into bankruptcy. We can only hope this verdict is not overturned and this church of vile hate is run into the ground.
Aaron Miller, Adam Hornung and Beamer Weems had three hits each, and Miller homered twice as No. 20...
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We can't make this stuff up. There really are people this evil in the world. Beyond even the evil you face on any regular day.Video found at Atheist Media Blog.UPDATE: Click here for a story about a Marine reservist who has charges dropped against him for going after Westboro protesters when one of them stuffed an American flag down their pants.
monday videoblog: the baptist hokey pokeyAdd to My Profile | More Videos The First Baptist Church of Richmond, Virginia The First Baptist Church of Washington, DC Alban Institute One of the Girls...
'The Book'Loved of The Lord, I cannot leave Moldova with out writing about what happened a couple years later. You know how I get into writing about Denominations or the lack of the same!In the CIS or the former USSR there are two Denominational affiliations. One is the Baptist Union and the other is the Pentecostal Union. Keep in mind that when Stateside Baptists sponsor a mission it would not be to support a Pentecostal Union Church and visa versa. Probably the mainstay of both Unions over there is neither are what you would call, ‘Once Saved, Always Saved’. In fact, there are minor differences, yet the main one is ‘Talking In Tongues’ and you already know which one does and which one does not. Can you see the smile on my face as I am writing this, knowing some of you have gasped
Female high school seniors who are Southern Baptists and active in Acteens are eligible to apply. Primary considerations are character, church service, academic achievement, an essay and references. Amount awarded varies depending upon funding availability.Contact Woman's Missionary Union Foundation, P.O. Box 11346, Birmingham, AL 35202-1346; 205-408-5525.
Women who are residents of Massachusetts and members of an American Baptist Church in Massachusetts are eligible to apply. Must intend on rendering Christian Service in their chosen major or career, although there is no restriction on what major you may be studying. Primary considerations are academic achievement, financial need, dedication, character and values.Contact American Baptist Women's Ministries of Massachusetts, 20 Milton St., Dedham, MA 02026-2967; 617-320-8100.
I am sometimes behind in my news... this is one of them!
This still does not excuse what they are doing to Heath Ledger! Heath's family needs to Sue the Shit out of the WBC for what they are also...
From One Womans Point of View Insanity is all around us. Poverty, War, Violence, Arguments, Greed, Abuse, Pain, Suffering, Crime, Injustice, Indifference, Intolerance, Hate .... it's Time for me to speak out blogging.
They've gone a little too far with this press release. For those that don't know, the Westboro Baptist Church pride themselves on condemning practically everyone. This includes troops, gays, transgendered people, Catholics, Muslims, and Jews just to name a few. They run what I consider to be hate websites in godhatesfags and godhatesamerica (both websites mention Ledger's death).These people and their message appal me. They want to picket Ledger's funeral... They stand to protest man's death, one who simply played a homosexual in a movie. They truly need to take a step back from their complete biased and prejudice stance and look at the fact that a father lost his son, a mother lost her son, and an innocent two year old girl lost a father.This was the first time I've come across their site
BaptistTheology.org has published my Baptist Heritage paper on Anabaptist Michael Sattler that I was able to present at the Baptist Theology Symposium. The paper is entitled "I Wait Upon My God: The Contribution of Michael Sattler to Our Baptist Heritage.†An Excerpt: Though his career as an Anabaptist was abruptly cut short, Michael Sattler was the most memorable and influential Anabaptist of the Swiss Brethren. The testimony of his life and death proved instrumental in holding together the diverse Anabaptist movement at a critical time. He served as the "bridge†between the precarious beginnings of the movement and its structured consolidation years later. In studying Sattler, one cannot escape the interplay between his theological underpinnings and his dramatic life and death. The two are linked in a way that defies separation. Though Sattler was not the only Anabaptist to be cruelly put to death, his execution was certainly the most memorable, as the words he wrote and the
Christians do not like it when atheism receives attention in the mainstream media. After all, this might lead people to learn what atheism is and to discover that religious delusion is not a necessary condition. So when news of atheist Sunday schools broke, it would just be a matter of time until Christians felt it necessary to respond.Writing for Baptist Press, R. Albert Mohler Jr. summarized the Time article before providing his undeniably Christian perspective on the matter. Mohler's brief reaction offers two points. First, atheist Sunday schools are doomed to fail because children are too gullible not to believe in his god.My guess is that these atheist Sunday Schools will not be as successful as these parents hope. "I'm Unique and Unrepeatable" just can't really compete with "Jesus Loves Me." Children have not yet developed cynicism and, in general, are quite eager to believe in God. Children taught from the Bible in Sunday School learn that they were made by a loving God who c
Posted on Nov 27, 2007 | by Jeff Robinson (click on link to read full story)
RIDGECREST, N.C. (BP)¿-Nearly 30 percent of recent SBC seminary graduates now serving as church pastors identify themselves as Calvinists, according to data presented during the opening session of a conference on Reformed theology and the Southern Baptist Convention.By contrast in the SBC at large, the number of pastors who affirm the five points of Calvinism is around 10 percent, Ed Stetzer, director of LifeWay Research, said in reporting various findings by LifeWay Research and the North American Mission Board Center for Missional Research.Such data, Stetzer noted Nov. 26, perhaps gives an indication why a conference such as "Building Bridges: Southern Baptists and Calvinism" is taking place. The three-day gathering, with approximately 550 attendees, is being co-sponsored by Founders Ministries and Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary at LifeWay Ridgecrest Conference Center in North Carolina.
Press Release
November 09, 2007
Little Rock, AR – Former Arkansas Governor and Presidential Candidate Mike Huckabee proudly announced the endorsements of several influential members of the Southern...
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Wednesday a $2.9 million verdict against the Phelps family of Topeka and their homophobe Westboro Baptist Church, a Kansas church that picketed the funeral of a Maryland Marine killed in an auto accident in Iraq last year.It is believed to be the first individual lawsuit against the Phelps, who are infamous for picketing military and other funerals around the country. They do not contend that the dead soldiers are gay, but that their deaths are punishment by an angry God against the United States for its tolerance of homosexuality.A grieving father, Albert Snyder, sued for unspecified damages after members staged a demonstration at the March 2006 funeral of his son, Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder.Family and church members, under the leadership of Fred Phelps, Sr., routinely picket funerals of military personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, carrying signs such as “Thank God for dead soldiers” and “God hates fags.”Their actions have prompted several states to pass laws regarding fu
You learn something every day. Apparently, the Union Street Baptist Church started life as a church/coffee house to refresh railway workers as well as offering spiritual support. This coming weekend (3rd and 4th November) brings a series of events to celebrate its 125th anniversary, where links to the railway and town's heritage will be remembered. There are events at both the Heritage Centre site and back at the church. Check out their web site (here) for latest details...
"We believe that the Baptists are the original Christians. We did not commence our existence at the reformation, we were reformers before Luther and Calvin were born; we never came from the Church of Rome, for we were never in it, but we have an unbroken line up to the apostles themselves. We have always existed from the days of Christ, and our principles, sometimes veiled and forgotten, like a river which may travel under ground for a little season, have always had honest and holy adherents. Persecuted alike by Romanists and Protestants of almost every sect, yet there has never existed a Government holding Baptist principles which persecuted others; nor, I believe, any body of Baptists ever held it to be right to put the consciences of others under the control of man..."--Charles H. SpurgeonTags: Being a Baptist, Charles H. Spurgeon, Existence from the days of Christ, Reformation, Romanists, Protestants, Church of Rome |
“Neither party should be defined by pandering to the outer reaches of American politics and the agents of intolerance,” whether they be Louis Farrakhan or Al Sharpton on the left or Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson on the right.”
John McCain spoke these brave words during his 2000 presidential run. The straight-talking maverick wasn’t [...]
Corliss Williamson announced his retirement Wednesday after 12 seasons in the NBA. He was introduced as a new assistant coach at Arkansas Baptist College.
“I want to be able to give back to the game,” Williamson said.
He was drafted by Sacramento in 1995 and also finished his career with the Kings. He averaged 9.1 points in 68 games last season. Williamson’s pro career also included stops in Toronto, Detroit and Philadelphia.
The second annual Washington Briefing: Values Voter Summit, will be held Oct. 19-21, Governor Huckabee will be speaking at this event. See left side bar of this blog for more information .
INTERVIEW...
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INTERVIEW PART 1: Policy issues -- Huckabee expresses vision & tradition
Posted on Sep...
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Ştiţi cum e cu anafoarele? Înotătorii ştiu. Şi ştiu şi cum să se ferească. Dar nu toţi…
M-am trezit în mijlocul unui anafor. Care-i soluţia? Să mă trag singur de chică, să mă salt înfundând pe alţii, sau să aştept să ajung la fundul apei şi… s-o iau pe jos până la mal?
Mă tot întrebam, iar [...]
First Baptist Church student ministries in Centerville have participated in Eagle Leadership Training for four years. The culmination of the training was celebrated with a trip to Greece to follow the Journeys of the Apostle Paul. The trip began in Thessaloniki, Philippi, and Delphi.
Evangelicals are unlikely to vote for Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney because the former Massachusetts governor’s Mormon faith claims to be the only true Christian church, a Southern Baptist leader says.
“I have a very difficult time with the perspective [the Mormon church holds] that, ‘we are the true expression of Christianity and all other forms [...]
SELMER, Tenn. –When a drag racing car slammed into a crowd of people who had lined the street for a parade in southwest Tennessee, leaving at least six dead, several Baptist ministers quickly were on the scene or at the local hospital.The tragedy occurred during the Cars for Kids Car Show, an annual charity event [...]
HOUSTON, TX. — Starting this fall Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary will offer a program in Christian homemaking, the seminary’s president said Tuesday. “We are moving against the tide in order to establish family and gender roles as described in God’s word for the home and the family,” seminary President Paige Patterson said in his prepared [...]
If you are a Baptist, rather than the Westminster confession, you are probably more familiar with the 1689 London Confession. The two are very similar and have read word for word in many places. You can find a side by side comparison of the two confessions here:http://www.rblist.org/1689vWCF.html
CHARLOTTE -- Another Baptist church in Charlotte voted Sunday to quit the increasingly conservative Baptist State Convention of North Carolina.
The pastor of Sardis Baptist Church said his flock considers a new convention rule forbidding member churches to affirm homosexual behavior to be a violation of local church freedom, a principle Baptists hold dear.
"We're not leaving mad or upset: We're
According to The Christian Post, sex scandals involving Southern Baptist clergy are receiving increased attention, with some fearing that we are looking at a similar pattern as the widely known epidemic facing Catholicism. I find this fitting because my experience has been that Southern Baptists are among the first to condemn other denominations as not being "real Christians."According to the article:A six-month investigation was unfolded Friday night on ABC's 20/20 which found "preacher predators" all over the country and shielding themselves in churches. Describing the case of Shawn Davies, a Missouri youth minister who plead guilty molesting 12-16 year-old boys, the article quotes Christa Brown, coordinator for Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, as saying, "What's so terrible about this crime is that the weapon is the kids' faith." Indeed.Not surprisingly, the coverage and the controversy deals with the appropriate role of the Southern Baptist Convention in policing se
One of my patron saints. From the Catholic encyclopedia:
Founder of the Institute of the Brothers of the Christian Schools, educational reformer, and father of modern pedagogy, was born at Reims, 30 April, 1651, and died at Saint-Yon, Rouen, on Good Friday, 7 April, 1719. The family of de la Salle traces its origin to Johan Salla, who, in the early part of the ninth century, was Commander-in-chief of the Royal forces of Alfonso the Chaste. It was not, however, until about 1350 that the younger branch of this family, from which our saint is descended, removed to France and settled in Champagne. John Baptist was the eldest child of Louis de la Salle and Nicolle de Moet de Brouillet. His parents were very solicitous in the care they bestowed upon their child, especially in regard to is moral and intellectual development. After due preparation, he was sent to the College des Bons Enfants, where he pursed the higher studies and, on 10 July, 1669, he took the degree of Master of Arts. Cano
Some of the recent posts have been a tad depressing. Drugs, rubbish tipping and the soon-to-be-closed bus station. So another snap of a long-standing Crewe building to lift the gloom, Union Street Baptist Church. I've also added it to the "Churches" page on Images of Crewe, so take a look if you enjoy such snaps...
This past Sunday, we talked about John the Baptist. There are many things that I have learned but one thing stood out: Craig our pastor reminded us that "WE" are now the "Messenger of Christ"...and that as Christians we should be leading others to Jesus. In Malachi 3:1 it says "Behold, I will send My messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me." It was John the Baptist's mission then...and it's our mission now.Since I am already falling asleep while typing this, I better end this post. Hopefully I can write longer tomorrow night...but for now I need to log off.But before I sleep, I want to give you a link to one of the best "story" I have heard about someone accepting Jesus Christ as her personal Savior and Lord. CLICK here for Mitali's testimony, it's a very touching story...don't miss it. Mitali is an excellent writer so I'm sure you'd enjoy this one.
By Mimi Rothschild
I would like to do my part to spread the word about the We Stand for Homeschooling petition. The petition was designed to help spread awareness about the deceptive use of the word “homeschooling” by public cyber schools.
These public cyberschools are using the word homeschooling as a way to lure those wishing for a public school alternative back into the fold. The problem the signers of this petition are trying to avoid can be summarized by a simple guilt by association. Public virtual charter schools are proving to be colossal wastes of money, especially when their students are not performing even as well as their public school counterparts. Their use of homeschooling terminology needs to stop now.
We might not be able to define what homeschooling is, given its variety of forms, but we can confidently define what homeschooling is not, and that is a publicly-funded program.
I can’t be any more emphatic about this: Enrolling in public virtual
On April 28, 2007, the Voices of Faith of New Horizon Baptist Church will be having their first Choir Anniversary. The theme for the service is: "Choir Anniversary The Old Time Way"There will be guest soloist, various singing groups and choirs attending. The format for the service will be based on church service the way we had it back in the day.Return to this Website for updated info.
Check out this article and see how it hits you. Honestly, at first I was a little put out. I couldn't believe how narrow-minded these people must be to not allow speaking in tongues at their college. Then I thought about it - this is a seminary. This is where they're training people in the basics of Baptist doctrine. And if speaking in tongues isn't considered a cornerstone of Baptist doctrine, they probably shouldn't promote it at the school.
But doesn't it seem just a little harsh to completely ban the practice? The original controversy stemmed from a sermon delivered by one of their trustees, and the original phrase he used was "private prayer language". Maybe they could've found a middle ground (like the U.S. military, for example) and had a don't ask don't tell policy. Let what goes on in private stay private.
I will say that I do have a lot of respect for SBTC in that they are attempting to do something that is becoming more and more foreign in Christian circ
Antioch Baptist Church"Annual Church Picnic and Community Connection" (July 15, 2006)The community social event was to begin at 1:00PM and last until 5:00. I was running behind my own set schedule as I planned to arrive at the park at noon to catch the early attendees and a chance to take pictures of the setup from beginning to end. In addition, I thought I might lend a helping hand where needed.With two lenses in tow, my corpulent feet did not touch the grounds until 1:05PM where I met a scattered group setting up tables and chairs and more tables, chairs, tents and booths. In this assemblage, was an exhibit of different cultures - some I had known since I was just a small child, others I had seen only a few times, but there were many more that I did not know and additionally, did not have an inkling I ever would have the opportunity to meet but would later realize the benefits of this connection.Antioch Baptist Church held a picnic slash community connection celebration. While this i
A Baptist preacher rose with an angry red face. "Someone in this multi-racial congregation has spread a rumor that I belong to the Ku Klux Klan. This is a horrible lie and one, which a Christian community cannot tolerate. I am embarrassed and do not intend to accept this. Now, I want the party who did this to stand and ask forgiveness from God and this Christian family." No one moved. The preacher continued, "Do you have the nerve to face me and admit this is a falsehood? Remember, you will be forgiven and in your heart you will feel glory. Now stand and confess your transgression." Again all was quiet. Then, slowly, a big breasted Black woman with a body that would stop traffic rose from the third pew. Her head was bowed and her voice quivered as she spoke. "Reverend there has been a terrible misunderstanding. I never said you were a member of the Ku Klux Klan. I simply told a my sister that you is a wizard under the sheets!" The preacher fainted.
Here is some great news for residents of southern Monument and western Black Forest. The eastward extension of Baptist Road to the western portion of Hodgen Road is nearly complete, at this point a signs point to the end of July.
This extension should make life easier for those that need to move east and west [...]